November 1st, 2014
256 comments
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What Did You Think of Episode 11 Dark Water?
In the mysterious world of the Nethersphere, plans have been drawn up.
Missy is about to come face to face with the Doctor, and an impossible choice is looming.
“Death is not an end” promises the sinister organisation known only as 3W – but, as the Doctor and Clara discover, you might wish it was.
Now that the 11th episode of series 8 has been aired what did you think? Was it everything you had hoped for or not what you expected…
Doctor Who: Series 8 DVD/Blu-ray – BBC Shop Exclusive
Doctor Who The Complete Series 8 starring brand new Twelfth Doctor, Peter Capaldiand his trusty companion Clara, played by Jenna Coleman.
This Limited Edition BBC Shop exclusive Blu-ray or DVD set comes complete with a bright embossed TARDIS slipcase finished with silver foil and a ‘press here’ button, which when pressed plays the legendary TARDIS sound effect. The Collector’s Edition also contains 6 exclusive art cards featuring images of The Doctor and monsters from the new series.
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The Complete Series 8 DVD/Blu-ray
Doctor Who: Series 8 DVD. Available to pre-order now!
Series 8 of Doctor Who returns to UK TV screens on 23rd August, starring Peter Capaldi as the Twelfth Doctor and Jenna Coleman as Clara.
The series is set to open with a feature length episode titled “Deep Breath”.
DVD or Blu-ray available to order from www.bbcshop.com
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Clive
November 6th, 2014 - 4:37pmIt’s interesting to see the BBC did get complaints for ‘Dark Water’. Plus I can understand it. Especially when you consider the previous episode (In the Forest of the Night), which seemed to be more of a childrens episode, well, it did feature a lot of kids. Then the following episode (Dark Water) which seems squarely aimed at adults, as it contained several highly charged and dramatic performances, plus some grim dialogue and imagery. The transition from ‘In the Forest of the Night’ to ‘Dark Water’ is HUGE! The tone is completely different that it almost feels like ‘Dark Water’ is part of a completely different series of Doctor Who altogether! There hasn’t been quite a jump in-between stories since ‘The Caves of Androzani’ and ‘The Twin Dilemma’. Although that was due more to story, direction and performances.
I enjoyed ‘Dark Water’ on second viewing, but I do still feel that some of the dialogue was out of place in Doctor Who. And I’m surprised if Mr Moffat didn’t expect some of the content of this episode to get complaints from viewers. Mary Whitehouse would be turning in her grave if she seen THIS episode!
ZygonTerror
November 6th, 2014 - 11:01amA few ideas that could help add logic to some of the continuity problems surrounding the Master/Cyberman storyline:
Maybe Missy is an incarnation of the Master from his pre-Yana days which would explain why she now seems to be antagonistic towards the Doctor once more.
For the personal timeline of the latest cyberman design, this story could be set before Nightmare in Silver and so this could be their first reveal in their own personal timeline.
Doctor Don
November 6th, 2014 - 8:25amThe master/Missy Episode…! Does not make sense! Why is the master now an absolute enemy of the Doctor?
If memory serves me correctly they parted mutually last time as the Master saved the human race, earth and the Doctor as he took on the timelords when David Tennant was the Doctor. There is no reason for the master to come back the way he/she did there is no motive?????
The Werewolf
November 6th, 2014 - 9:33pmThe Master is a villain, he/she is always supposed to be evil, that was just a little blip.
RORY DOCTOR RIVER POND
November 6th, 2014 - 10:04pmdidnt the doctor destroy the machine holding the time lords in place and the master went with them
RORY DOCTOR RIVER POND
November 4th, 2014 - 9:05pmits random how missy knows what the new cybermen look like.
i think it would’ve been even more exciting if she unveiled the new model
Some bloke
November 3rd, 2014 - 10:06pmI really enjoyed it, but I felt like it was more like a 50 minute pre-title’s scene and this weeks will be the actual episode; there was no real drive for the story, it was just a big reveal to Missy and her plan, a long draw back of the curtain… you know?
Tim M
November 4th, 2014 - 5:38pmAgreed. It felt like a series of set pieces, building up to a proper story in the next episode.
Anonymous
November 3rd, 2014 - 7:28pmif the next episode is equally as great it is my faviroute episode
judon 543
November 3rd, 2014 - 6:58pmI really liked this episode. I think it was good to see the return of the cyber men. And i also liked
the idea about Missy being the master. The first time i ever saw the master was in 2007 so i literally had no idea who he was. but i soon found
out who he was.
Anonymous
November 3rd, 2014 - 6:17pmI know this is random but a pokemon can change its gender when its evolves
doctor no more
November 3rd, 2014 - 6:14pmafter a terrible series a glimmer of light with this episode,the best so far,but still don’t like this doctor,i just hope moffet doesn’t come out with a silly ending about the master after how brilliant jon simm made him plus russell t davies fantastic storys made him a brilliant foe.danny should go don’t like the story line with clara,its like the ponds over again,keep clara with the doctor.hope she sees his next regeneration soon.
Anonymous
November 3rd, 2014 - 7:53pmI agree with you. I thought the person who wrote Mummy On The Orient Express and Flatliner wrote the saving grace stories for this series. Roll on a regeneration, Clara deserves a better Doctor.
Big D
November 3rd, 2014 - 6:01pmI thought that Michelle Gomez was terrific as Missy, possessing (almost) just the right amount of humour and quiet threat that the late, great Roger Delgado (although no-one could better his masterful performance) himself had.
However, I do wish Missy had been the Rani or another female villain rather than a gender swap Master. I dont think I agree with Time Lords swapping genders for the reasons The Other Guy gave so eloquently.
I quite enjoyed the episode, though it did feel a little bitty in parts. Clara has now become very irritating and for the first time have to say I’ll be glad when she goes (though her portrayal of grief was very well done).
Tim M
November 3rd, 2014 - 6:07pmAlso, if the Doctor becomes female in his/her next incarnation, and bumps into her grand daughter Susan…Does Susan still call him grand father…I’m confused!
yognot
November 3rd, 2014 - 6:11pmShe is the perfect choice and I hope she returns for more.
Tim M
November 3rd, 2014 - 6:21pmMoffat might as well bring back the Time Lords and bring back Borusa as Bertha next time. More than ever now though I feel this series is being made for the fans. Plus whilst I rate Peter Capaldi as a great actor, I have found his Doctor to be a bit too abrupt and distant, I suppose to make the character feel more alien, but I can’t help feeling it could also be alienating some of the viewers. I know some people where I work haven’t warmed to his Doctor, in fact one of them said “bring Matt Smith back, all is forgiven’…and he wasn’t even a fan of Matt Smith’s Doctor!
the astronaut of death
November 3rd, 2014 - 5:44pmwhen it says delete on the ipad isn’t that just the cyberman saying delete
the astronaut of death
November 3rd, 2014 - 5:00pmwhy so much hate for a female master?
Anonymous
November 3rd, 2014 - 6:02pmIts not hate, its that you just saw The Doctors long time enemy snog him, and in Deep Breath be refered to as “her boyfriend”, picture Roger Delgado in your head please and then say Yeah thats fine, thats what enemies do all the time
Tim M
November 3rd, 2014 - 6:05pmI don’t say I hate the fact there is now a female Master (or Missy). But why he/she now decides to wear a Mary Poppins outfit, really takes a way a lot of the menace of the Master. It all seems a bit tacky. Michelle Gomez is a fine actress, and I’m sure she will continue to be great in this new role. But it makes me think now that the next Doctor could be female…and to be honest my first choice would have been Michelle Gomez to play it!
Anonymous
November 3rd, 2014 - 4:39pmRecreated scene from the invasion when the cybermen come down from st. Paul’s Cathedral!!!!
Harold Saxon
November 3rd, 2014 - 4:25pmOne Question,what is missy’s weapon?Do we suppose that it is a new version of TCE perhaps?
Harold Saxon
November 3rd, 2014 - 4:23pmExcellent episode,gripping and tense,i loved how the doctor didn’t guess who the missy really was,the cyberman bit is good too.
Kevin
November 3rd, 2014 - 8:45amTotally agree with THE OTHER GUY’s comments, how can a Time Lord then become a Time Lady & visa versa, it does make marriage if it exists on Gallifrey virtually impossible, imagine the uproar should The Doctor eventually meet up with Romana with full facial hair
DOCTOR WHO ONE
November 3rd, 2014 - 3:07pmHA HA, YES !! 😀
My dear Romana, how lovely to see you again . . . . minus the beard.
Dalek The Supreme
November 4th, 2014 - 5:24amThere’s literally a species of tree frog here on Earth that changes its gender. Is it so hard to accept that an alien species can do it, too?
Shaun
November 4th, 2014 - 8:40pmWell, the Doctor could finally start calling Romana Fred!
casper
November 3rd, 2014 - 5:20amWhen do we get the Dr back, sick of the life and times of whats her name and her soppy boyfriend, the Dr has become an extra. Get him back!
ZygonTerror
November 3rd, 2014 - 1:05amNot to give too much away about The Harvest of Time, but when the Sild have all the incarnations of the master, one is a woman so really the idea of Missy has been around before the series came back.
Kiek
November 2nd, 2014 - 8:54pmMaybe it`s not the first time the master/mistres is female. We havent seen all his/her incarnations.
Drwho101
November 2nd, 2014 - 8:57pmMy theory is that the mistress has changed genders to hide from the timelords now out to get her
The Other Guy
November 2nd, 2014 - 8:22pmThe Master is now a WOMAN.
Dmbest thing to come out of Dr Who since the bertie bassett monster.
Having time lords gender swap makes absolutely no sense what so ever.
Imagine being a time lord. Your married to the woman of your dreams, a few years and a couple of kids later she ups n becomes a guy.
You beautiful wife is now a burly bloke with a beard. And lets not forget how the kids would be effected. Mum for a couple of years, dad number 2 for a few more and then back to being mum again.
They would grow up to be seriously messed up individuals. Not exactly the stuff a guardian of time and space should be.
The most ridiculous idea Moffat has ever come out with. Some body shoot him before he drives DR Who well and truly into the ground.
Other than that, not a bad episode.
David
November 2nd, 2014 - 8:28pmYou do realise you are talking about how ridiculous something is in a TV show built around the concept of a box that is actually a spaceship than can travel through time? Yup!
I’d guess that Missy being The Master is a red herring and next week’s finals will reveal she is lying.
Drwho101
November 2nd, 2014 - 8:58pmShe changed genders to hide from the timelords I think
Lee
November 3rd, 2014 - 12:33amTotally agree with The Other Guy.
DOCTOR WHO ONE
November 3rd, 2014 - 7:23amSorry David, but I’m on the side of the Other Guy, his totally right.
Besides, the idea of a Police Box that’s bigger on the inside then the outside is not daft, it’s sheer genius !! 😀
Anonymous
November 3rd, 2014 - 12:58pmI do like David’s premise that it could be a red herring.
Dalek The Supreme
November 3rd, 2014 - 2:31pmHow do you know what’s messed up for Time Lords and what isn’t??? Are you an expert on Time Lord biology/society? It’s been implied at least once that Time Lords can regenerate into Time Ladies. Besides, there’s a type of tree frog that can change it’s gender here on Earth. Is it THAT far-fetched to believe that an alien species can do it?
Shaun
November 4th, 2014 - 8:45pmIn Night of the Doctor, Paul McGann is offered the choice ‘Man or woman’ – Maybe the Master has been to visit the Sisterhood of Karn? … and perhaps they also offered ‘Mary Poppins or Cruella de Ville’
The Flying Shark
November 2nd, 2014 - 7:17pmWOW! This episode was absolutely amazing!
Doctor Stu
November 2nd, 2014 - 6:58pmJust watched the episode but it didn’t have as much impact as I accidentally found out who missy was before watching it, hope there’s something that explains what happened to the master after the end of time and also (I’m gonna get hate but…) just because you’ve turned the master female (which I’m fine with) please don’t think this is a good excuse to have the next doctor as a female. It just wouldn’t work the doctor always needs to be a man just as Catwoman always needs to be a woman. Loved the suspense, best acting all series and this is the first time in a couple of years that I’m actually really wanting to see the next episode. This series has been the best in a long while (apart from last weeks mess lets not go there) and I’m looking forward for what’s to come
ZygonTerror
November 2nd, 2014 - 6:40pmI know the obvious answer is that Missy is the master incarnation that followed Harold Saxon, but I wonder if this is accurate?
I wonder which incarnation of the Master Missy actually is. Pre or post Yana?
Andrew R
November 2nd, 2014 - 6:20pmThis episode had balls!
For me, this felt like an episode I have been waiting for – it had both intimacy and urgency. As events unfolded, it really felt like everything that was happening actually mattered.
The characterisation was unusually raw and the themes were unusually dark and brutal, particularly given the audience. But in a significant shift from the flip, fast paced, one-liner dependent style of most of the Matt Smith era – the writing and execution of the episode never once made light or under-sold the gravity of events as they unfolded.
Taken on her own merits, Missy had all the camp ‘evil genius’ traits of previous incarnations of The Master – brilliantly acted with relish without tipping into total silliness – but also an unusual level of viciousness in her view of the doctor. I totally agree that the change in gender has done something interesting and provocative to the relationship – it feels bruised, broken and somehow more deeply personal. Capaldi’s acting (or, rather, reacting) in these scenes is quite brilliant – he is the Rod Steiger in this scene to Michelle Gonez’s Brando – much less showy, but with a quiet power that really strikes a chord, particularly with repeated viewing.
The first 15 minutes had a real intimacy and took chances with the characters that I appreciated. Clara’s actions were extraordinary, but never once hit a false note. Which is a real testament to both the writing and the acting. Just as impressive – the final 15 minutes gradually built until that freight train of a cliffhanger – which worked not because of the surprise (plenty of people had figured out the plot twists and knew about the Cybermen), but because of the startling execution of this nightmare scenario unfolding as a reality for both the Doctor and Clara before our eyes; and watching them helpless to do anything about it.
I haven’t felt this excited about the next episode of Doctor Who in quite some time.
100,000BC
November 3rd, 2014 - 4:46pmI agree completely.
Dalek The Supreme
November 2nd, 2014 - 5:31pmThe Master being female now? Surprisingly… I’m okay with it. It’s been hinted at that Time Lords can switch genders, and since “Missy” largely has been keeping the same basic character, it’s being handled quite well, aside from one aspect. The kiss. Obviously, in the Tenth Doctor era, there was an implied deeper meaning to the relationship between the Doctor and the Master, but it needs more build-up within the context of the episode. Instead of having Missy hang back for most of the episode while the Doctor runs around for no reason, I would have preferred to see interaction between the two. However, I really liked the reveal. There’s also the fact that, even though the dead are already Cybermen, the dead people can STILL feel that they’re being cremated. Another thing, HOW did the Cybermen get all those bodies??? On second thought, scratch that last one, I’m sure they’ll answer that question in the next episode. Also, I’m not sure if I like how easily the Doctor forgave Clara, even though he knew she’d betray him. When Adam betrayed the Doctor’s trust, he took him back home. Even when Rose did the same thing, he chewed her out. Heck, even though the Eleventh Doctor still married her, he yelled at River Song for screwing with the timelines. Here, Clara pretty much shows she’s willing to cut the Doctor off from his home to get him to screw with time, but he just says “Okay, let’s go to where people die and get him back.” I’m all for forgiveness, but honestly, I don’t buy that the Doctor forgave her just like that. I like how they foreshadowed the Cybermen throughout the episode, and even if they weren’t in the next-time trailer, I could have pieced together that they would be turning up. I am worried about they’ll be handled, since they were nearly unstoppable in Nightmare in Silver. We’ll see. It’s always hard to judge a two-parter until both episodes are out.
CybermanFan
November 5th, 2014 - 2:59pmThe ‘dead still feel what their bodies are doing’ thing was revealed to be a con to make people choose conversion and ‘delete’ their emotions…
Great episode…I loved it.
CJ
November 2nd, 2014 - 3:55pmWhy can’t you all just accept the Master is now female? 😀
The Moffat Paradox
November 2nd, 2014 - 4:04pmSee thread on Who Is Missy Revealed.
Ian
November 2nd, 2014 - 4:54pmBecause it is ridiculous.
Hate the whole concept of gender swapping timelords.
Can’t anybody just stay as they are now without it being an issue.
This was a poor day for the series in general, and a poor way to mark the contributions of previous actors who worked hard to define the character.
The Moffat Paradox
November 2nd, 2014 - 5:11pmAlso surely risks the after Capaldi let the next Doctor be a woman regardless of wether or not thats a mad idea bandwagon
starting again.
But who knows for sure with Steven Moffat.
DOCTOR WHO ONE
November 2nd, 2014 - 5:22pmI agree with you totally Ian.
Dalek Smith
November 2nd, 2014 - 5:24pmBecause it hasn’t been written right for the master, compare what we have now to Delgado and Ainley. They are how the master should be. Also, the master snogging the doctor isn’t right at all.
Dalek Smith
November 2nd, 2014 - 5:30pmAlso, nu-who writes the master in a way that just isn’t who the master is and what he should do
Drwho101
November 2nd, 2014 - 6:47pmThe master and the doctor have been friends for years since kids,I think it made it a lot more entertaining for me at least
The Moffat Paradox
November 2nd, 2014 - 3:36pmOne big and surely obvious question.What does Missy/The Master gain from being in league with the Cybermen? Unless it’s back to the “I’ll side with anybody/anything if it will help me get back at the Doctor and/or conquer the universe” routine the character was notorious for in the Pertwee years.
The Master has also been notorious for viewing would be allies as expendable pawns to be betrayed or abanoned if plans go awry if they don’t have the same intent for him/her.
Anonymous
November 2nd, 2014 - 4:31pmIts very sad that the cybermen won’t be the main focus
The Moffat Paradox
November 2nd, 2014 - 4:46pmPotentially like Dalek stories with Davros so it’s more about Davros.But we’ll see.
Drwho101
November 2nd, 2014 - 8:59pmA way of destroying timelords
Ian
November 2nd, 2014 - 3:17pmGood, but just not into all this gender swapping cobblers.
What’s wrong with staying one sex. Counting down until the Dr changes and I stop watching.
Love the cyber plot, awesome.
the astronaut of death
November 2nd, 2014 - 2:19pmwho here thought it was the master
I did!
the astronaut of death
November 2nd, 2014 - 2:18pmif they kill of or get rid of the master at the end of next weeks episode I will be really annoyed as we will probably have to wait another 5 years until another writer decides to bring him back
Harold Saxon
November 3rd, 2014 - 4:18pmyes i hope they do not do that,the charcter is underused these days i’d like to see this character more regularly.