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March 1st, 2020 103 comments

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What Did You Think of The Timeless Children?

Now that the Final episode of series 12 has aired what did you think? Was it everything you had hoped for or not what you expected.

The Cybermen are on the march. The last remaining humans are hunted down. Lies are exposed, truths are revealed, and for the Doctor nothing will ever be the same.

Single constructive comments on the article in question only. The reply facility has been permanently removed.



  • Luke

    March 13th, 2020 - 9:41pm

    The show just seems a bit tired now and full series just aren’t working. Time for the odd special episode where the writers can work on strong scripts as producing ten decent episodes seems beyond them.

    Not sure if I’ll be back at Christmas but if I do then it’s by my own choice! The amount of fans who whinge about the show being awful but keep watching is staggering.

  • The Moffat Paradox

    March 11th, 2020 - 8:30pm

    In a free society people have the prerogative regardless of any ” over the top backlash ” to decide exactly what they think of this for themselves and if it’s merited but if the consolidated is still poor it shows the hard core fans are carrying this and if too many of them are being peed off then it is a case of (as well as those concerned at the BBC trying tp appear cleverer than they are) getting woke and going broke. At least as far as domestic and international audiences are concerned

    One wonders if with the insulation of the licence fee Chibnall and BBC bigwigs are like Jeremy Corbyn and his Labour entourage supposedly convinced that their manifesto is a sure fire vote winner before the election.


    March 11th, 2020 - 5:54pm

    I’ve come to the conclusion that most of the shocks/twists by Chibnall this season were quite unnecessary, I don’t think he answered a massive question by altering the canon, as no one was asking about it really. Jack’s return, although great didn’t add any plot development, nor did the Lone Cyberman/Cybermen in the end, as the whole Timeless Child thing took over. Shocks/surprises for the sake of it I think.

  • Doctor Stu

    March 9th, 2020 - 9:53pm

    It’ll be the lowest watched because of the over the top backlash that would put people off

  • Dalek Eye Stalk

    March 9th, 2020 - 6:54pm

    The consolidated ratings for the finale are abysmal! But I doubt the BBC or Chibnall will take note. They will carry on exactly the same. Doctor Who needs a rest. It’s losing many fans and losing many general viewers. The Daleks are back in the festive season, but will anyone still be watching?

  • prototype dalek

    March 9th, 2020 - 4:18pm

    The Timeless Children is officially the lowest watched episode after consolidation with just 4.69 after iPlayer and +4 Screen, and this was a season finale with the Cybermen and the Master.

    Use to be the Eaters of Light back in 2017 with 4.73m.

  • ‘The Reckless Chibnall’

    March 8th, 2020 - 1:08pm

    That’s the alternative and more appropriate title I give to ‘The Timeless Children’. Chibnall has been reckless with the show after all.

  • Bushboy

    March 8th, 2020 - 5:54am

    Does anybody have any idea how the Timeless Child reveal could reconcile with Lady P’s claim that she knows who The Doctor is in Silver Nemesis?
    She clearly new something significant about The Doctor’s past yet The Doctor himself seemed to be aware of the secret she was threatening to expose.
    Could it be that the Seventh Doctor had regained memories of his pre Hartnell lives or is there still another big secret being kept.

  • Stephen m

    March 7th, 2020 - 4:34pm

    Overall I have enjoyed this series and the finale. Interested to see where they take the timeless child story.

    My problem with the lady few episodes was that the doctor appeared very passive. She was out played by the lone cyberman in villa and ascension, then by the master in the finale.

    The writers consistently struggle to figure out how the doctor as a ‘pacifist’ deals with hordes of daleks or cyberman. Here she knows what to do to end the threat, but cant go through with it. I felt that running off to allow the old soldier to detonate the bomb was actually cowardly.

    I would have preferred to either see her detonate the bomb, but be rescued at the last second (either the companions or Jack) or, preferably, have the bomb as a bluff, and come up with another way to neutralise he cyber time lords (eg using her DNA, since that is in all time lords). Either of those solutions would have been more doctory than what was shown.

    Otherwise a good series and looking forward to what happens next

  • ColinB

    March 7th, 2020 - 12:48pm

    I wonder if the Division is the C.I.A. – the Celestial Intervention Agency.

  • Anonymous

    March 7th, 2020 - 8:53am

    The last 2 seasons have been the worst ever with terrible acting appalling scripts I could not care less the daleks are back I won’t be watching anymore

  • Im a fan of baroque music mixed with edm

    March 7th, 2020 - 4:24am

    I liked most of season 12 but the timeless child was just too wrong to say the doctor is not a time lord it would have been fine if there were other versions of the famed time lord/lady the doctor but saying shes basically from somewhere else makes it more depressing then the ninth doctor saying hes the last of the time lords because the doctor isnt even a time lord shes just something alone in the universe from somewhere else and even though she the doctor has many people who he the doctor has known the doctor is only one of whatever the doctor is and thier may be no others of what the doctor truly is which means the doctor is equal to nothing because even if the doctor lives forever the doctor will never be known what she and he actually is but an anomaly sent from somewhere stranger then the void the place which rests outside of time even if the doctor comes from somewhere within time noone actually knows “””The Doctor””” which is sad.

  • Anonymous

    March 6th, 2020 - 6:48pm

    Totally agree bunter. Some of the YouTube stuff is positively vile.

  • Doctor Stu

    March 5th, 2020 - 10:04pm

    Just rewatched because my Dad hadn’t seen it
    yet and still as great as the first time. One important line, the Doctor says something like ‘was I forced back into a child’ – answer….yes she was. She was forced back into a child, grew up on gallifrey as normal, entered the academy, became a time lord, got the same 12 regeneration limit every other time lord got and the rest is history. If she’s got regen energy then she grows her second heart after her first regen. And runs out of the limit given to her in time of the Doctor. He then gets a boost from the time lords like we see.

    Nothing, literally nothing in doctor who history has changed. It’s so infuriating that people act like this has ruined anything. Actually watch the episode people.

  • Bunter

    March 5th, 2020 - 9:02pm

    Doctor Stu and Doctor Mysterio – most excellent posts. I entirely agree that the story, as it stands, adds a huge amount of mystery to the Doctor. I also second the idea that things may not yet be as they appear. If folk are more patient, they may just find the bigger story arc is much more satisfactory then many of them seem to find it now. Personally I like it a lot. My only gripe with the finale was that the explorer finding the Timeless Child (and all the followed up to The Division) wasn’t entirely engaging or convincing in its realisation. But the idea I am fine with. We may even find that we’re in a loop, and the child first found at the bottom of the portal is The Doctor! Or it may be lies and misinformation. Or maybe it’s exactly as we saw it (fine by me). We know nothing yet. The Ruth Doctor has little explanation as of yet, so clearly there is a long way to go, and that has me buzzing for more again after a fairly bland series 11.

    No-one is going to convince me I didn’t like it, no matter how much they parade the ratings around. And certainly not some toxic YouTubers who seem to have made an industry out of their ‘outrage’. They should be grateful that they have something to think about, perhaps…

    How many more times with the melodramatic eulogies for this “once great show”. RIP DW 1963-2017; -2018; -2019; -2020 (because you know you’re still watching it).

  • Doctor Stu

    March 5th, 2020 - 5:45pm

    Button, ok but….the question Doctor Who? Could already be answered. A man from gallifrey. We now know he didn’t come from gallifrey, he dropped out of the sky, through a portal, from god knows where. We don’t know where he’s from? How many lives he’s had, even what species he really is? This has literally made him/her even more mysterious and opened up even more questions. I don’t see how it’s done the opposite?

  • The Moffat Paradox

    March 5th, 2020 - 4:17pm

    All we want (and not just with Who) from this is getting ever better stories using the best affordable sets/FX on offer without overt political allegiances that enthral, entertain are dramatic, emotional, suspenseful, action packed and in plot premises are within the right (as hopefully still with Bond when we now see it in November) margins of respectful to what went before.

    Something that we should be indisputably LOOK FORWARD TO.

    But that seems to be asking too much from hacks and TV channels that are supposed to accredited with wits and creative talent as well as fidelity to the genre And then its wondered why these things get canceled if its not conscious self destruction.

  • Doctor Mysterio

    March 5th, 2020 - 1:57pm

    Some people are being quick to judge the timeless child story. No one knows how this will be resolved yet. For all we know, Chilball will resolve everything and put all the toys back in the box at the end of his era ready for a new show runner to take over. That is how it was handed to him, after all.
    I am also sure that, when his era is all said and done and we have a chance to view it as one big story, we’ll be coming back to some of these episodes and really appreciating the story he has weaved.
    And some people seem to be obessed still with ratings. Programmes now are being made for streaming as video content, that’s the future. The life of this series will be so much more than just one broadcast at one time. The Netflix generation will be able to enjoy all of New Who, on demand, for many years to come. And interesting shows, like we have had this series, will always keep people coming back for more.

  • Button

    March 5th, 2020 - 12:54pm

    To be honest I am not sure about the finale, the series was great and far better than series 11. However I am completely torn over of The Doctor being the Timeless child. If the reason that they did this was to bring back an air of mystery to the character then I am afraid they have come up short, where I stand they have literally told us who the doctor is and have only subtracted from the allure of the character. Such a revelation should have been saved for the sixtieth special and should have had its own dedicated story.

    The main reason Doctor Who has endured for so long is because it constantly changes, no matter how many times his face changed I knew who The Doctor was even when he regenerated into a woman. But now……… I don’t think I recognize the Doctor anymore and that is not a good thing and the title of the series had lost a little bit of its meaning.

    I was introduced to Doctor Who when I friend of mine told me about it in primary school and I have stuck with the series for the last fifteen years. Of course I intend to watch Revolution of the Daleks and come back for any Dalek or Cyberman episode but I don’t think I can support this show until the Doctor being the timeless child is changed.

  • The Moffat Paradox

    March 4th, 2020 - 8:42pm

    If things that we like in fiction and entertainment are being politically hijacked instead of being given a more even handed approach (especially by a poll tax funded BBC) without rectification then shouldn’t we retaliate by voting ever more for those things the preachers are taking a slanted side against?

    You try and tell me too much how I should think (assuming you can even do that better than I can for myself) then in my voting decisions I’ll make sure you know just how well your self righteous arrogance has gone down.

    (Not that I expect them to be really show any evidence of introspection i.e. reflection that they might actually have been wrong about things.)

    Because if viewing figures were a general election then however after allowing for catch up it’s spun the swingometer is going against Chibnall Who. And the bar’s supposed to be they could improve on series 10

  • ADAM

    March 4th, 2020 - 5:42pm

    The deconstruction of Who lore came as no great surprise. As soon as the decision was made to change the Doctors gender it was always on the cards. Again good story telling and characterisation is all but forgotten. Pushing preachy agenda is more important, and sadly that’s all that brand Who is now used for.
    I found it all embarrassing and laughable and going from the dwindling viewership it can’t last for much longer in it’s current incarnation.

  • Doctor Stu

    March 4th, 2020 - 2:38pm

    Pats: The Doctor or ‘the timeless child’
    Kept regenerating because she was being experimented on. She basically kept killing her child over and over again until she learnt the perfect formula for regeneration.

  • The Moffat Paradox

    March 3rd, 2020 - 11:08pm

    Always possible ( assuming if its left to another showrunner after Chibnall; if there is one) that besides the redacted “secret data” in the matrix what was “seen” is Time Lord “fake news” or the Master/Doctor at least partly misinterpreting what it all really/fully means if there’s otherwise no one left from the High Council to be brought to account.

    (And how does this Master downgrade from Missy single handily wipe them all out anyway if his time line isn’t like River Song’s as has been suggested with the help of the Kasaavins? EXPLAIN! EXPLAIN!! as the Supreme Dalek might say but modern Who since Steven Moffatt NEVER DOES!)

    All of this is otherwise unnecessary UNLESS NOT actually intended to be the last word regarding canon as part of a story arc. Because otherwise Rassilon and Omega could have been Shobogans from Gallifrey who found this “boundary” and had been able to use its properties (with bad results for Omega) to establish the “laws of time” and a standard 12 regeneration cycle for all other Shobogans upon their becoming Time Lords. Among those born post the creation of Time Lord civilisation being the Hartnell Doctor and of course the Master. Otherwise as already said it makes nonsense of Clara pleading in “The Time Of The Doctor” for Gallifrey to give to give the Smith Doctor a new regeneration cycle if the High Council knew he didn’t need it.

    And if set up as an,at any rate attempted,unalterable retconning of canon does that mean that the never really resolved what it exactly it was supposed to be “Hybrid” in series 9 (assuming Chibnall even watched series 9) might now be conceived as possibly being the combining of the genes of the Timeless Child with that of the pre Time Lord Shobogans of Gallifrey? Maybe the Time Lord High Council thought according to prophecy/theory about what the Hybrid is that this Timeless Child would also destroy the Time Lords as well as create them which might explain Rassilons trepidation about the 12th Doctors return in “Hell Bent” even if he and the previous incarnations going back to Hartnell had saved Gallifrey from the Time War. Except the Master’s somehow already done that for the second time post Time War. So maybe the Timeless Child could also be viewed as well as being the progenitor of the Time Lords as also the Hybrid but the Hybrid is supposed to ultimately save Gallifrey. (Again) Not just stand over its ruins as prophesised.

    And IF any of what we have seen is to be taken at face value and not in canon matrix deception/misinterpretation there is still the issue of what the Timeless Child exactly really is (seems almost a bit like pinching from the idea of the star child in 2001 if the boundary had any consciousness) if Rassilon/Omega weren’t somehow initially involved until bit later in the founding of Time Lord civilisation and its emergence as a temporal universal and trans-dimensional superpower? Not to say how “Doctor Ruth” really fits in all of this in any event.

    Bottom line. I hope for the best while fearing for the ever worse going into the next series before, if it is ever worse, dwindling audiences force the BBC’S hand and after a hiatus, if it ever comes back with or without the BBC, there is a creative attempt to move the franchise and canon from this. If not just a Dallaesque pretend it never happened. And the rot set in with Moffatt before Chibnall.

  • Pats86

    March 3rd, 2020 - 6:59pm

    Doctor Stu, yes I have rewatched that bit so got that now, but…why did the Doctor regenerate several times whilst being with the woman who found her? (Forgotten her name)

    She wasn’t able to regenerate at that point and didn’t age at all?
    So why did the Doctor keep regenerating as a young adult? Or even a kid?

    My initial coming to terms with this episode is starting to wane, I actually feel sad about the last two seasons and struggling to accept what has been done to this once great show.
    I didn’t help myself by listening to the Big Finish Spare Parts story in the car today, very nostalgic about when the Doctor really was THE DOCTOR!

    And then if it couldn’t get any worse it did, Bradley Walsh is leaving after the special but Mandip isn’t (Tosin Cole is going too but who cares)

    Not a good day, feeling sad 🙁

  • Chibnall. the poor imitator of RTD and Moffat

    March 3rd, 2020 - 6:02pm

    There is no getting away from it, but Doctor Who in it’s current form is not a success. The terrible viewing figures that dropped week on week is testament to that. Why the BBC haven’t regenerated the Doctor again yet is beyond me. The problem lies in the casting of the main characters, how they are played and more importantly the writing. If all 3 are an issue then you’ve got problems. It cannot care on like this. It won’t make it’s 60th anniversary at this rate.

  • Doctor Mysterio

    March 3rd, 2020 - 4:22pm

    It has also been confirmed today that both Bradley Walsh and Tosin Cole will be leaving after the next special, whereas Mandip will be joining Jodie for her third season. Hopefully a chance for Yaz to shine next year!

  • Doctor Stu

    March 3rd, 2020 - 3:24pm

    Pats, but the Doctor actually says this though, she says something like ‘did you turn me back into a child?”

  • Derek the Dalek

    March 3rd, 2020 - 2:12pm

    I have struggled through both series with Jodie and must admit I’m done. She is a fine actreas but out of place in the role. The air of mystery and that always present sense of danger that the doctor had has gone. Sunday’s finale was a mess, let’s take 50 years of background and history and tell you it’s all wrong. The stories have been woeful and the escapism has gone. No one is checking on Chibnil to see what he is doing/destroying and a once must see show is dying before my eyes. For those still enjoying that show I’m happy for you but again I’m done, so many great shows on amazon and Netflix and old episodes to view

  • Anonymous

    March 3rd, 2020 - 10:38am

    In the 80’s fans were devastated when the Cartmel Masterplan didn’t come to fruition before the show was axed (thanks to the Beeb listening to moaning DW fans). That possible storyline has been discussed ever since and held up as one of the biggest “If only” moments in the show’s history. Some decades later, Chibnil has produced something very close to that storyline and guess what, fans are still moaning.

    No real surprise though. DW fans have been moaning since the mid 70s – sorry, I should say a small vocal percentage of DW fans have been. The rest of us just enjoy the ride and occasionally get vocal (like me, right now), when you read some of the hate being spewed out and think….calm down guys, its just a TV show. Fill the void in your lives with something more important and direct all that hate into something positive and you will all go far. Maybe one day, you’ll be a DW writer and make the show like how you want it to be.

  • Pats86

    March 3rd, 2020 - 10:32am

    Doctor Stu, when a Time Lord regenerate they they do so at the age that they are, as an an adult or child if needed.

    How could the Doctor have grown up and then regenerate into a child again? This makes no sense at all?

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